The Perception of 'Random' on the iPod

Interesting thought, Faruk. If we look to nature, how much is truly random? Even the leaves on the trees grow according to strictly defined patterns. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything in the natural world that is random.

Maybe we should just rename the ipod's Shuffle mode ot "arbitary" mode, or "capricous" mode or something.

There are lots of things that are very random. Like the weather. Like precise life of a light bulb. Planetary orbits. Electron location. Fish trajectories. Blood vessel location.

Note a lot of these things have a predictable average and range for a group, but the precise individuals cannot be predicted within the range.

It's arguable, however, that there is still no randomness, only a patter to sophisticated to recognize.

It's arguable, however, that there is still no randomness, only a patter to sophisticated to recognize.

Or too simple to recognize.

Hotbits is one solution to this problem. Some enterprising individual connected radioactive isotopes to a computer by means of a Geiger-Müller tube and will serve up truly random numbers on request. Of course, a nuclear powered iTunes playlist is probably not what he had in mind -- but still... it's a clever idea.

Are you kidding, Killfile? A nuclear-powered iPod would have so much geek/cool kid cred, I'd be surprised if Apple's not working on it right now.

<privateSteveJobs>Figure out how to make it stop irradiating the user, or you're fired!</privateSteveJobs>

<publicSteveJobs>The all new iPod Atom has an insanely great battery life!</publicSteveJobs>

You could argue this topic isn't really random at all, but a predictable result of an everyday event.

(I also think it's also that people suddenly realize that they have a lot more music from certain bands than they realize. For example -- I shouldn't be surprised to hear a lot of Pearl Jam -- even 2 or 3 in a row, as I happen to have more PJ music than any other band.)

The thing about the iPod being telepathic is that the reverse is partially true for many of those cases.

Some people simply do have a certain level of "telepathic" powers, something that lets them communicate with a different object or person in the universe in a way that nobody quite understands (so far, anyway). It usually stems from a certain attachment to the object or person, and given that a lot of people really love their iPods, I wouldn't be surprised to find a good level of attachment in those cases.

I'm also confident that some day, we may find a scientifically proven reason for this. Until then, I simply believe in it fully just based on my own experiences, the experiences of others and my view of how the Universe works.

Some people simply do have a certain level of "telepathic" powers, something that lets them communicate with a different object or person in the universe in a way that nobody quite understands

What on earth are you talking about? Everyone has

Don't kow what happened there, but the post two above mine is essentially a fabrication in its entirety.

I love the fact that people believe their Ipod may be telepathic

Must be an "Apple thing" in general. Mac users actually seem to develop symbiosis with their computers.

You're thinking of the album by The Police.

Not on my iTunes

... or were you trying that Jedi mind thingy?

One of the forgettable parts about growing up in the eighties is the music. "The Police" are a prime example of eighties bands that kept selling the same song over and over again under different titles.

One of the nice parts of growing up in the eighties was having parents that grew up in the sixties and seventies and still had all their record albums. :)

Ellie, if that's what you think, you should have been listening to better music in the 80s. The best of that decade was incredibly vibrant and interesting. Not much of it got on the radio, but there was some great music being made if you look for it.

On the other hand, I'm not a Police fan, either.

Yes! My iTunes also loves REM. I'm not totally into them (in fact I only have one album of theirs), yet iTunes plays them on shuffle over and over again!
About half of my music was ripped long before I got my Mac. It was only transferred onto here recently - when I first purchased it a couple of months ago. Ever since, iTunes seems to much prefer to play the older music over anything I've ripped since.
My iPod has a similar story, although varies slightly. I seldom hear REM on my iPod, but I get Foo Fighters every 3rd or 4th song - all from the same album (even though I own 3 of theirs).
But back to iTunes, I also hear way too much Drowning Pool, INXS and Incubus (my iPod also loves Incubus). I don't think either has ever shuffled to Eskimo Joe or the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
What's the go, Apple?

Trust Apple when it says its random. Try and calculate the probability of each song playing an equal number of times over the life of an ipod and then try to say its not random. If they did play an equal number of times then it wouldn't be random in a way.

Another way to look at it is: Until someone has the same 20 (maybe 20 is too low) play in the same order twice then you can say its not random. Even if that happens there was always a 1 in something chance of it happening.

No -- we can't be random because our brains aren't wired for it. Human beings have shown themselves to be horrible at picking random numbers. We look for patterns and, because we assume that randomness ought not have patterns, we subconsciously avoid patterns. In short, human beings create a normalized distribution where none exists.

Computers are bad at randomness for the same reason -- they think algorithmically. I can give you some pretty good equations that generation psudo-random numbers and have a computer run those based on the Millisecond value of its clock, but the numbers will still be predictable.

Fundamentally, randomness isn't found in human constructions. We abhor it. If you want randomness use radioactive decay or something else that's actually tied at a fundamental level, not to something complex, but to something that is truly random.

It's been a while since I've taken the classes, but if I recall:

Any product of and expression or equation can never be considered a random number or set of numbers, methinks.